Adjusting tempo

Guitar Tricks Forum > Music Theory > Adjusting tempo

jimk8882

Full Access

Joined: 08/31/20

Posts: 22

The song Lucky Man (Made Easy) is written in a 6/8 time signature. The music sheet shows that a quarter note equals 76 bpm. The instructor on this song indicates that we should use a 6 count for each measure. This makes sense given the time signature. My question is do I set my metronome at 152 bpm, assuming I want to practice at full speed, since I am counting eighth notes which are 1/2 of a quarter note?

I assume that I will learn more about this later in my GT studies.

Thanks,

Jim

#1

The song Lucky Man (Made Easy) is written in a 6/8 time signature. The music sheet shows that a quarter note equals 76 bpm. The instructor on this song indicates that we should use a 6 count for each measure. This makes sense given the time signature. My question is do I set my metronome at 152 bpm, assuming I want to practice at full speed, since I am counting eighth notes which are 1/2 of a quarter note?

I assume that I will learn more about this later in my GT studies.

Thanks,

Jim

hsnoeckx

Full Access

Joined: 12/03/19

Posts: 261

You are right, don't know why Caren put a quarter note for the tempo in a 6/8 time signature, totally unlogical. Also funny you can't print the tabs, copyright on chord progressions and strumming patterns don't exist.

Herman

#2

You are right, don't know why Caren put a quarter note for the tempo in a 6/8 time signature, totally unlogical. Also funny you can't print the tabs, copyright on chord progressions and strumming patterns don't exist.

Herman

ChristopherSchlegel

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 08/09/05

Posts: 6509

Originally Posted by: jimk8882
The song Lucky Man (Made Easy) is written in a 6/8 time signature. The music sheet shows that a quarter note equals 76 bpm.

Right. 6/8 can be a little strange sometimes when it comes to tempo indications. I've seen it written 2 different ways

1. Quarter notes because that's how many people are used to counting & using a metronome. So you're counting it like a waltz: 1, 2, 3 for each measure. But since 6/8 means each beat is 2 eighth notes you set the metronome to click on 1/8th notes 1, 3 & 5.

2. Dotted quarter notes. This actually lines up with the groove better on some songs because you set the metronome to clock on 1 & 3. But it's not the easiest thing to get used to for some people because it's not straight 4 quarter notes!

Originally Posted by: jimk8882
The instructor on this song indicates that we should use a 6 count for each measure. This makes sense given the time signature. My question is do I set my metronome at 152 bpm, assuming I want to practice at full speed, since I am counting eighth notes which are 1/2 of a quarter note?

Set your metronome to 76 BPM if you want the metronome to click on 1/8th notes 1, 3 & 5.

The bold numbers are the click: 1 (2) 3 (4) 5 (6)

Set your metrnome to 52 BPM if you want the metronome to click on the dotted quarter notes 1 & 4. The idea here is 1/4 note BPM divided by 1.5 to get the dotted 1/4.

The bold numbers are the click: 1 (2 - 3) 4 (5 - 6)

Hope that helps!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

#3

Originally Posted by: jimk8882
The song Lucky Man (Made Easy) is written in a 6/8 time signature. The music sheet shows that a quarter note equals 76 bpm.

Right. 6/8 can be a little strange sometimes when it comes to tempo indications. I've seen it written 2 different ways

1. Quarter notes because that's how many people are used to counting & using a metronome. So you're counting it like a waltz: 1, 2, 3 for each measure. But since 6/8 means each beat is 2 eighth notes you set the metronome to click on 1/8th notes 1, 3 & 5.

2. Dotted quarter notes. This actually lines up with the groove better on some songs because you set the metronome to clock on 1 & 3. But it's not the easiest thing to get used to for some people because it's not straight 4 quarter notes!

Originally Posted by: jimk8882
The instructor on this song indicates that we should use a 6 count for each measure. This makes sense given the time signature. My question is do I set my metronome at 152 bpm, assuming I want to practice at full speed, since I am counting eighth notes which are 1/2 of a quarter note?

Set your metronome to 76 BPM if you want the metronome to click on 1/8th notes 1, 3 & 5.

The bold numbers are the click: 1 (2) 3 (4) 5 (6)

Set your metrnome to 52 BPM if you want the metronome to click on the dotted quarter notes 1 & 4. The idea here is 1/4 note BPM divided by 1.5 to get the dotted 1/4.

The bold numbers are the click: 1 (2 - 3) 4 (5 - 6)

Hope that helps!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

ChristopherSchlegel

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 08/09/05

Posts: 6509

Originally Posted by: hsnoeckx
You are right, don't know why Caren put a quarter note for the tempo in a 6/8 time signature, totally unlogical.

It's kind of weird but I've seen it done that way in some cases.

Originally Posted by: hsnoeckx
Also funny you can't print the tabs, copyright on chord progressions and strumming patterns don't exist.

Right. But it is notation on the same page as & clearly from the context of the lesson intended to be the music from copyright protected material. And that's exactly the sort of thing that publishers & lawyers are paid to notice. :)

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

#4

Originally Posted by: hsnoeckx
You are right, don't know why Caren put a quarter note for the tempo in a 6/8 time signature, totally unlogical.

It's kind of weird but I've seen it done that way in some cases.

Originally Posted by: hsnoeckx
Also funny you can't print the tabs, copyright on chord progressions and strumming patterns don't exist.

Right. But it is notation on the same page as & clearly from the context of the lesson intended to be the music from copyright protected material. And that's exactly the sort of thing that publishers & lawyers are paid to notice. :)

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

hsnoeckx

Full Access

Joined: 12/03/19

Posts: 261

I understand you Chris, the USA is a nation that is build up on lawyers, companies and lawsuits.

First time I went to the states on holliday I almost couldn't stop laughing any more when I saw this sticker on a soda vending machine saying " this machine can kill you ", after the tour guide explained why it was there about some old lady that didn't get her soda after putting in money and started pulling on the machine which then fell over her and killed her and since then they put these stickers on there to avoid lawsuits, any where else in the world judges would have ruled that it was her own fold and not the vending machine and that would put an end to all these lawsuits.

With this way of copyright on Carens peace everybody here risks a lawsuit only playing the same chord sequence ( like it appears in hundreds of songs ) or by playing the same strumming pattern, again like in hundreds of songs.

What about fair use in copyright rules as in teaching?

Most copyrights handle only the song lyrics and melody line of that song, arrangements and guitar parts are in the biggest part of the world not copyright capable, only in the US.

my 50 cents because I can understand really good that most beginners can not follow a song if they can not see the whole tab, auto scroll doesn't always work good here, sometimes it jumps to the next line while the song is only halfway the previous line and if printing is not possible because of that copyright then that st...ks

#5

I understand you Chris, the USA is a nation that is build up on lawyers, companies and lawsuits.

First time I went to the states on holliday I almost couldn't stop laughing any more when I saw this sticker on a soda vending machine saying " this machine can kill you ", after the tour guide explained why it was there about some old lady that didn't get her soda after putting in money and started pulling on the machine which then fell over her and killed her and since then they put these stickers on there to avoid lawsuits, any where else in the world judges would have ruled that it was her own fold and not the vending machine and that would put an end to all these lawsuits.

With this way of copyright on Carens peace everybody here risks a lawsuit only playing the same chord sequence ( like it appears in hundreds of songs ) or by playing the same strumming pattern, again like in hundreds of songs.

What about fair use in copyright rules as in teaching?

Most copyrights handle only the song lyrics and melody line of that song, arrangements and guitar parts are in the biggest part of the world not copyright capable, only in the US.

my 50 cents because I can understand really good that most beginners can not follow a song if they can not see the whole tab, auto scroll doesn't always work good here, sometimes it jumps to the next line while the song is only halfway the previous line and if printing is not possible because of that copyright then that st...ks

jimk8882

Full Access

Joined: 08/31/20

Posts: 22

Chris, thank you for the explanation. I think I follow what you are saying. However, I am a bit confused as to how to count in each of these scenarios.

The strum for this song is written where each measure is an eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth, eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth note.

If I set the metronome at 152 bpm (i.e, on each eighth note), then the first click is 1, 2nd click is 2 &, 3rd click is 3, 4th click is 4, 5th click is 5 &, and the 6th click is 6.

If I set the metronome at 76 bpm (i.e., clicks on the 1st, 3rd and 5th eighth note) then the count for the first click is 1, 2 &, for the 2nd click the count is 3, 4 and the 3rd click is 5 &6.

If I set the metronome at 52, (i.e., clicks on the 1st and 4th eighth notes), the the count for the first click is 1, 2 & 3, and for the 2nd click, it is 4, 5 & 6.

While 76 bpm and 52 bpm best match the time signature, it may be easier for a beginner to use 152 bpm to learn the strum. Thoughts?

Jim

#6

Chris, thank you for the explanation. I think I follow what you are saying. However, I am a bit confused as to how to count in each of these scenarios.

The strum for this song is written where each measure is an eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth, eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth note.

If I set the metronome at 152 bpm (i.e, on each eighth note), then the first click is 1, 2nd click is 2 &, 3rd click is 3, 4th click is 4, 5th click is 5 &, and the 6th click is 6.

If I set the metronome at 76 bpm (i.e., clicks on the 1st, 3rd and 5th eighth note) then the count for the first click is 1, 2 &, for the 2nd click the count is 3, 4 and the 3rd click is 5 &6.

If I set the metronome at 52, (i.e., clicks on the 1st and 4th eighth notes), the the count for the first click is 1, 2 & 3, and for the 2nd click, it is 4, 5 & 6.

While 76 bpm and 52 bpm best match the time signature, it may be easier for a beginner to use 152 bpm to learn the strum. Thoughts?

Jim

jimk8882

Full Access

Joined: 08/31/20

Posts: 22

hsnoeckx, thank you for raising the issue about the auto-scroll. As a beginner, I have been easily confused by the auto-scroll when using it to practice. Getting better, but it is one more thing to think about as one deals with all of the other matters we need to think about while playing a song.

I would just add that while the copyright laws in the US are what they are, it is still disappointing that we are unable to print the notation. In my case, there are times when my internet access is either metered or just not available. Practicing under both of these conditions would be improved if I could print the notation.

Jim

#7

hsnoeckx, thank you for raising the issue about the auto-scroll. As a beginner, I have been easily confused by the auto-scroll when using it to practice. Getting better, but it is one more thing to think about as one deals with all of the other matters we need to think about while playing a song.

I would just add that while the copyright laws in the US are what they are, it is still disappointing that we are unable to print the notation. In my case, there are times when my internet access is either metered or just not available. Practicing under both of these conditions would be improved if I could print the notation.

Jim

ChristopherSchlegel

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 08/09/05

Posts: 6509

Originally Posted by: hsnoeckx
With this way of copyright on Carens peace everybody here risks a lawsuit only playing the same chord sequence ( like it appears in hundreds of songs ) or by playing the same strumming pattern, again like in hundreds of songs.

Right. And we have lessons on stereotypical chord progressions that have notation that GT has chosen to make unrestricted. So, you can download it.

But the notation on that page is clearly intended to refer to copyrighted music. GT has been scrupulous about making sure they get the permission of the arts and, or publisher in order to avoid lawsuits.

But, also because it's the right thing to do.

And part of the voluntary agreement is not to make the notation downloadable. That could change in the future because it is a negotiable contract point. But for now, the publishers get to make that decision. GT respects that because it wants to continue to get access to songs that artists & publishers want to make available.

It's sometimes made for a long & complex process. But it's the only way to make sure the people that did the work to create the music benefit from our use of it. So, it's win-win.

I think lawsuits here in America can be overdone & sometimes ridiculous. But in the case of copyrighted music the legal process is pretty clear & quite logical:

1. An artist creates a song that wouldn't exist except for that artist's work.

2. People like the song & want to learn to play it.

3. GT asks for permission to teach it.

4. GT charges money for subscription access to the lessons.

5. GT pays money to the artist (usually through the publisher that represents the artist).

Originally Posted by: hsnoeckx
What about fair use in copyright rules as in teaching?

That's a gray area that can be difficult to legally define or defend. I think it's clear in most cases that the songs GT gets permission to teach are valuable property. And not only does it make sense to seek out & use the proper legal ways to get permission, it also allows the site to stay active & in business by being totally above board. Above suspicion so to speak.

Originally Posted by: hsnoeckx

my 50 cents because I can understand really good that most beginners can not follow a song if they can not see the whole tab, auto scroll doesn't always work good here, sometimes it jumps to the next line while the song is only halfway the previous line and if printing is not possible because of that copyright then that st...ks

It's not ideal for sure. And I'm hoping it could change in the future!

Hope that helps!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

#8

Originally Posted by: hsnoeckx
With this way of copyright on Carens peace everybody here risks a lawsuit only playing the same chord sequence ( like it appears in hundreds of songs ) or by playing the same strumming pattern, again like in hundreds of songs.

Right. And we have lessons on stereotypical chord progressions that have notation that GT has chosen to make unrestricted. So, you can download it.

But the notation on that page is clearly intended to refer to copyrighted music. GT has been scrupulous about making sure they get the permission of the arts and, or publisher in order to avoid lawsuits.

But, also because it's the right thing to do.

And part of the voluntary agreement is not to make the notation downloadable. That could change in the future because it is a negotiable contract point. But for now, the publishers get to make that decision. GT respects that because it wants to continue to get access to songs that artists & publishers want to make available.

It's sometimes made for a long & complex process. But it's the only way to make sure the people that did the work to create the music benefit from our use of it. So, it's win-win.

I think lawsuits here in America can be overdone & sometimes ridiculous. But in the case of copyrighted music the legal process is pretty clear & quite logical:

1. An artist creates a song that wouldn't exist except for that artist's work.

2. People like the song & want to learn to play it.

3. GT asks for permission to teach it.

4. GT charges money for subscription access to the lessons.

5. GT pays money to the artist (usually through the publisher that represents the artist).

Originally Posted by: hsnoeckx
What about fair use in copyright rules as in teaching?

That's a gray area that can be difficult to legally define or defend. I think it's clear in most cases that the songs GT gets permission to teach are valuable property. And not only does it make sense to seek out & use the proper legal ways to get permission, it also allows the site to stay active & in business by being totally above board. Above suspicion so to speak.

Originally Posted by: hsnoeckx

my 50 cents because I can understand really good that most beginners can not follow a song if they can not see the whole tab, auto scroll doesn't always work good here, sometimes it jumps to the next line while the song is only halfway the previous line and if printing is not possible because of that copyright then that st...ks

It's not ideal for sure. And I'm hoping it could change in the future!

Hope that helps!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

ChristopherSchlegel

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 08/09/05

Posts: 6509

Originally Posted by: jimk8882

The strum for this song is written where each measure is an eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth, eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth note.

If I set the metronome at 152 bpm (i.e, on each eighth note), then the first click is 1, 2nd click is 2 &, 3rd click is 3, 4th click is 4, 5th click is 5 &, and the 6th click is 6.

If I set the metronome at 76 bpm (i.e., clicks on the 1st, 3rd and 5th eighth note) then the count for the first click is 1, 2 &, for the 2nd click the count is 3, 4 and the 3rd click is 5 &6.

If I set the metronome at 52, (i.e., clicks on the 1st and 4th eighth notes), the the count for the first click is 1, 2 & 3, and for the 2nd click, it is 4, 5 & 6.

While 76 bpm and 52 bpm best match the time signature, it may be easier for a beginner to use 152 bpm to learn the strum. Thoughts?

You've got the right idea. All of them are valid ways to count because they are all technically correct. So it comes down to which one makes the most sense to any indvidual.

Have you tried it with all 3?

In my experience the 52 BPM works the best for most students. It gets you in the sway of the 6/8 rhythm & there are just enough clicks to keep your place without getting in the way. At 152 there are so many clicks it can overwhelm beginners & they get lost on which click is which. But if it works for you, then go for it!

Please let me know how it goes for you. Hope that helps!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

#9

Originally Posted by: jimk8882

The strum for this song is written where each measure is an eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth, eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth note.

If I set the metronome at 152 bpm (i.e, on each eighth note), then the first click is 1, 2nd click is 2 &, 3rd click is 3, 4th click is 4, 5th click is 5 &, and the 6th click is 6.

If I set the metronome at 76 bpm (i.e., clicks on the 1st, 3rd and 5th eighth note) then the count for the first click is 1, 2 &, for the 2nd click the count is 3, 4 and the 3rd click is 5 &6.

If I set the metronome at 52, (i.e., clicks on the 1st and 4th eighth notes), the the count for the first click is 1, 2 & 3, and for the 2nd click, it is 4, 5 & 6.

While 76 bpm and 52 bpm best match the time signature, it may be easier for a beginner to use 152 bpm to learn the strum. Thoughts?

You've got the right idea. All of them are valid ways to count because they are all technically correct. So it comes down to which one makes the most sense to any indvidual.

Have you tried it with all 3?

In my experience the 52 BPM works the best for most students. It gets you in the sway of the 6/8 rhythm & there are just enough clicks to keep your place without getting in the way. At 152 there are so many clicks it can overwhelm beginners & they get lost on which click is which. But if it works for you, then go for it!

Please let me know how it goes for you. Hope that helps!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

jimk8882

Full Access

Joined: 08/31/20

Posts: 22

Chris, just a quick follow-up for you. Today I tried playing the strum for Lucky Man (Made Easy) using the metronome at 56, 72 and 152 bpm and the counting patterns for each described in my previous post. In the end, I preferred the 56 bpm as it fits nicely with the song. A close second was the 152 bpm but, as you had suggested, it is so fast that it does overwhelm one and causes one to lose their place. A distant third was the 72 bpm but I think that it was because it didn't fit the strum pattern used here (i.e., click, 1, 2 &, click, 3, 4, click, 5 & 6).

Thank you for your suggestions and comments. I wouldn't have figured out the 56 bpm solution on my own.

Jim

#10

Chris, just a quick follow-up for you. Today I tried playing the strum for Lucky Man (Made Easy) using the metronome at 56, 72 and 152 bpm and the counting patterns for each described in my previous post. In the end, I preferred the 56 bpm as it fits nicely with the song. A close second was the 152 bpm but, as you had suggested, it is so fast that it does overwhelm one and causes one to lose their place. A distant third was the 72 bpm but I think that it was because it didn't fit the strum pattern used here (i.e., click, 1, 2 &, click, 3, 4, click, 5 & 6).

Thank you for your suggestions and comments. I wouldn't have figured out the 56 bpm solution on my own.

Jim